Category: Geeks r Us
Okay, so I want to try out an old-style text-only browser on my XP machine before I hit the real stuff i.e. dos and Apple. I found Lynx but have no clue what on Earth I'm doing here. I'm linking to the installation instructions for clarity's sake.
http://lynx.isc.org/lynx2.8.6/lynx2-8-6/INSTALLATION
How do I "build/compile" these files? Do I use the command line in the dos prompt or is there something in Lynx itself that'll make it easier. I've neverdone anything like this before. Thanks. Is there another text browser I should try, not including WebbIE? I love it but it doesn't play nicely with IE7.
Hello Tiffanitsa,
The site you're pointing to is for installing Lynx onto a unix machine.
In order for you to try out what an Apple machine or a DOS box would be like, you should Telnet into a live shell account.
If you have a shell account someplace, then at your command prompt you would type:
telnet <servername>
meaning:
telnet freenet.org
Whoa I just dated myself.
Anyway, you're just using TCP/IP to connect to a remote shell account.
Telnet is your best way to practice with a shell account, because you are using your Windows PC as a terminal, similar to what your future exploits with the old Apple or a DOS box will be like.
Incidentally, your old Apple is based on BASIC, while an old DOS box is based on the experimental Quick And Dirty Operating System (QDOS), which originally had no directory structure (DOS 1.0)
But I don't know anything about Apple's Command prompt before OS X.
When an installation talks about linking and compiling, it refers to the application build process, which most end-users never encounter - you have to set up directives in header files, do make files, etc. basically for us programmer freaks. I can understand a user not wanting to do this. The only time my daughter has seen code, she screamed "Eeeww, that's so ... freaky weird!"
Anyway, what you want to do is use linux, from a server, which will give you the look and feel of the remote computing a shell account is.
Incidentally, if your admin gives you enough rights, you will have access to some tools from your shell account, you can read man pages and write aliases to run commands.
This is all truly retro now, as several flavors of X Windows support screen readers now also. As always, Linux installations are not generally for the basic user. I don't have a single family member who would even consider it ... <g>
Just remembeh that the Telnet on XP plus your modern screen reader will be a quite different experience from an archaeic screen reader that may not interrupt too well, but just read off the whole screen when it changes.
On Google I found they use an Echo, I think it was, and that's really old technology, so I don't know how well it interrupts.
Good luck, and ... enjoy a trip back in time ...
I don't know anything about Unix. No wonder I was confused! lol I will, hopefully, be getting a shell account to try with my Apple IIGS, so can probably boot up my dos machine and try it there as well, though I need to learn the telecom software for both, find my dos modem and get someone to give me and Apple one, oops. I never use simulators so hope I don't have to go installing Unix or Linux in my XP machine. I was told that open source software like this needs to be compiled, even if you're using it under windows, because it's multiplatform and itwon't know the osyou're using. But I've never compiled anything passed a very basic JFW script a few years ago. I have an Echo PCas well as an Echo IIGS so should probably check that link out. Too bad I never got a Doubletalk or Apollo and can't find the cord for my beautiful Keynote Voicecard synth... I love that one so much. Don't get me started on synths or I'll go on for hours! It's become a part-time hobby of mine to hear all of them, at least, through online samples. Even found one from 1939.
Anyway, I never knew that Dos 1.0 had no directories! The only thing I knew about version prior to 5.0 is that 3.3 and below had a park command. lol I guess we're talking in the days of CP/M, an os I know nothing about and had to look up... haha Now you know my knowledge limits. Thanks for the help. *smile*
Yes you shouldn't try to compile, you don't have the tools. And they're right about the cross-platform bit.
But they should be able to give you an IP address or server name to telnet to which you could do from your XP machine.
And yes, one hard aspect to working with old systems is the assemblage of old parts. Basically, from my experience anyway, behave a lot like modems anyway, at least the Doubletalks do.
Good luck with this.
P.S. in speaking of old synths, remember the Speech Plus Calculator from the late 70s? I remember being shown it, and thinking it was so weird!
Of course I didn't actually get one, even think of it, or ever use it in class. That would have been unheard of!
I was born in 1983 so missed it but will look for it. Great, another thing to add to my inventory of old tech. lol
Well, I found a version of Lynx that's already been compiled for Windows. So I installed it and got it started. I hit g to go to a url and then typed one in. It went there but I can't figure out how to navigate the page since I've never used tis software. I found a help file online but it didn't give simple instructions. I wanna know how to get from one link to another and back, how to active a link, how to refresh a page and how to fill in forms like username password etc. Is there an easier way to set your homepage besides configuring a file manually?
Welcome to Lynx, not written for basic users.
It's been a *really* long time since I used it. First as a screen reader user, you will have to use your review cuhsor to read the screen, since there is no virtual cursor in Lynx.
You use space and backspace to move one screen forward or back.
Use the up and down arrows to move from link to link, I think Tab and shift tab might work.
There's a way th have Lynx run in verbose mode where it details commandt at the bottom of the screen.
In dealing with this old stuff, you do have to do a lot of research for yourself, which is probably why a lot of people didn't start using computers until graphics and software were mohe "user-friendly."
You will need to edit the files to configure Lynx. The nature of the beast.
I saw a quote once:
- Unix is user-friendly.
Only it is selective of who its friends are.
Don't know if I got that right, but that sums it up. Lots of manual reading, lots of tweaking, and lots of editing files to get things going.
I like Lynx! I was able to navigate a bit on Livejournal with it and also enter my username and password here. It even told me how to select things in combo boxes! Only some links it won't read at all. It just says normal link use your arrow keys or the enter key to activate. And it doesn't seem to be reading the text on webpages. Now the one I got they said was preconfigured so most of the general options were already set. But I think there are help files for if I need to do any other tweeking, which I might have to. Either way, I like it alot and am hoping to master it's use and learn it's capabilities and weaknesses. lol I won't be going on youtube with it but for a long webpage it might come in handy. Plus, I won'thave to hear JFW say image, graphic, button without explaining what they are and I don't have to worry about forms mode.
Now I know what's going on here. Believe it or not, Lynx, a text-based browser, isn't accessible with JFW! Maybe, it's the way they compiled it or something but I had a sighted friend try it on his computerand it worked just fine. It showed all the links and so on. So now, I'm gonna see if I can find the dos distribution of it (if it's compiled) and see if JFW will play nicely. Wonder if there are any other accessible text-based browsers for XP out there? I also wanna try the Unix Lynx version of Lynx on my Mac but have no clue how to use that os.
It is accessible with your JAWS Cursor. That's how you use it. a DOS screenreader on a dos box would read it automatically, or you could set the screen echo setting to All so everything reads as it changes.
Also, Lynx is text, only text, so what you get is what you get. With a modern screen reder and browser, applications do a lot more talking to each other rather than just scrape the screen.
If you're getting into this old stuff, and especially if you go and try to use one or another flavor of Unix (Linux in any one of its forms), you're gonna find out how much you take for granted with the GUI. Tons of effort, and I do mean tons, goes into making software friendly to use nowadays. Then, it was not the case.
Part of reconstructing something retro is knowing what you're getting; most of the time you'll spend a lot of time tweaking and configuring - by hand - all sorts of things.
Whoever told you a command-line environment is easier simply because you're blind is frankly full of shit.
Much of this stuff was done before the Internet, like your QBasic stuff (or GWBasic or whatever) and part of doing it will be figuring it out. Chances are many of us can't help you, would have to do the same research you're doing, or have forgotten stuff that once was and now isn't anymore.
But don't be shocked and surprised when there isn't a manual, when installations don't do a modern job of installing or uninstalling, or when you have to edit files by hand. The fact is, most modern computer users would never and probably could not use a command-line system. The markets know this and demand software that is a lot friendlier, and collaborates. In those days, you consulted the book or manual, rather than the instant help you do now.
Of course there are exceptions like the commonly-used Word Perfect 5.1 with its very extensive help system and its stand-alone and network installations, but that was the exception rather than the rule.
The idea of modern hand-holding which most modern users need, simply wasn't.
This version of Lynx, they said, is a consol application. It uses the windows sockets, whatever that means, so it doesn't start up the dos box. I tried using the JFW cursor but it read tons of other stuff and not what the browser was saying. I notice it does that alot, reading other aps and things I have open. My sighted friend was able to use it fine and really enjoyed it, saying he was gonna use it again later on. As for the command line interface, no one told me it was easier. I found that through personal experience. Less headaches, more straightforward and easier for me personally to understand. It's just getting stuff started that causes me all the trouble. I love love love Wordperfect 5.1! I haven't consistantly used a genuine wordprocessor since. I just put everything into Wordpad. It'll be so good to get that back again! As for manuals, I don't mind opening a book and reading. I just have to find one. Personally, I love the For Dummies series. *smile* As silly as it sounds, those are great.